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Fukushima round two?

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For the same reason I oppose the artificial creation of anti matter.

Lets assume a global apocalypse happens and only a few survive.

What happens to all this stupid ******** we make? Its reliant on human regulation.

So these few survivors are pretty much ********ed because their ancestors were cheap ********s who put convenience above logic.

And nuclear waste isnt something the environment wants. Were already raping the earth and doing it faster and faster every day. I mean, there were 5 billion less people here before oil.

But now Im just going on about the inevitable global overpopulation that will soon happen, because humanity is inherently stupid.

Also, the topic of this thread is another good reason.

"If it happens once, it will happen again."

But lets just throw up a bunch of nuclear reactors and say "******** nature!" I mean, its not like nature is out of our control or anything....

I'd like to know how nuclear power plants hurt the environment considering that they only release steam.

To oppose nuclear power is to oppose human progress and to put irrational emotional reactions before scientific fact and the survival and prosperity of humanity. Although your opposition to the creation of antimatter as well makes me wonder if you just oppose science in general.

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No, I love science actually.

1. What is done with spent nuclear fuel rods?

2. What benefit do we get from creating antimatter?

3. Nature cannot be contained. It can't be controlled. What the Hell makes you think nature will spare humanity? Because history says nature is a huge ******** that couldn't care less what happens to us. We are literally a single natural disaster away from a nuclear disaster.

Further more, Im not a tree hugger, but I do have a cousin who's very into Celtic paganism. She's made me respect nature a lot more than I previously have. Nature literally dictates whether you and I live or die. Every day a natural disaster doesn't kill you, is a day you should thank nature for sparing you.

So lets assume this same disaster happens again, because it WILL.

How do we know it won't end in a nuclear disaster even worse than Chernoble?

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No, I love science actually.

1. What is done with spent nuclear fuel rods?

2. What benefit do we get from creating antimatter?

3. Nature cannot be contained. It can't be controlled. What the Hell makes you think nature will spare humanity? Because history says nature is a huge ******** that couldn't care less what happens to us. We are literally a single natural disaster away from a nuclear disaster.

Further more, Im not a tree hugger, but I do have a cousin who's very into Celtic paganism. She's made me respect nature a lot more than I previously have. Nature literally dictates whether you and I live or die. Every day a natural disaster doesn't kill you, is a day you should thank nature for sparing you.

So lets assume this same disaster happens again, because it WILL.

How do we know it won't end in a nuclear disaster even worse than Chernoble?

Nature isn't a deity. There's no reason to thank it. It doesn't consciously decide to let you live.

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True. However, I don't view nature as a "deity" I do view it as something simaler.

As a Taoist, I believe "all is one," thus we are as much a part of nature as it is us.

Of course, it doesn't think, it does act.

Im not saying, literally thank nature. I was just making my point more clear. We don't control nature. If anything, nature controls us. Deity or not.

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Eh, nuclear power stations are really more of a concentrator for already existing nuclear matter. It would require more energy than we would get back out if we were actually straight creating the fuel.

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See we just need to develp thorium as our primary nuclear fuel source. Not only does it have no risk of a meltdown whatsoever, it's "waste" can be recycled indefinitely for further usage. There are no downsides to it other than cost, mind which would be less than our yearly military budget to convert 50%+ of our energy to it. While I don't have an exact page citation since it has been a while (as I no longer posses the book, sadly) SuperFuel: Thorium, the Green Energy for the Future is a book I highly reccomend at least checking out from your local library.

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No, I love science actually.

Then you should support scientific progress, instead of opposing it.

1. What is done with spent nuclear fuel rods?

Ideally (and eventually) they will be put in deep geological repositories. We were going to build one, at Yucca Mountain, but thanks to Luddite NIMBYs (and Harry Reid) that fell through.

 

2. What benefit do we get from creating antimatter?

Energy. Propulsion. Space exploration. Scientific progress. Knowledge.

 

3. Nature cannot be contained. It can't be controlled. What the Hell makes you think nature will spare humanity?

We can learn to control nature for our own ends. Unfortunately we're doing a pretty ******** job right now because we don't know how to do so yet without messing up the planet.

 

Because history says nature is a huge ******** that couldn't care less what happens to us. We are literally a single natural disaster away from a nuclear disaster.

Wrong.

Also, I'd rather have a single nuclear disaster (Fukushima only killed 2 people, and those deaths were from a hydrogen explosion, not radiation, FYI) than the ten million or so people that die as a result of fossil fuels every year. http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/deaths-per-twh-by-energy-source.html

 

Further more, Im not a tree hugger, but I do have a cousin who's very into Celtic paganism. She's made me respect nature a lot more

More than you should.

than I previously have. Nature literally dictates whether you and I live or die.

Untrue. Modern medicine is a thing.

Every day a natural disaster doesn't kill you, is a day you should thank nature for sparing you.

It doesn't have to be that way. We can learn to engineer nature. In fact, it is our moral obligation to do so.

 

So lets assume this same disaster happens again, because it WILL.

No, it won't. We have learned from the mistakes of Chernobyl (which happened when idiotic Soviet workers intentionally disabled all security protections. Also chernobyl wasn't even fully built. It didn't have a concrete containment, wbich has been a standard feature of nuclear reactors since 1970 or so.

How do we know it won't end in a nuclear disaster even worse than Chernoble?

Because Chernobyl didn't even have a containment building. Chernobyl is actually impossible to happen again on modern reactors.

Also, Chernobyl killed fewer people (4,000) than coal kills EVERY DAY.

The Banqiao Dam disaster killed 185,000 people. Should we ban hydropower?

@Unendingfear

And until then, uranium fission is BY FAR our best source of energy. It has the best safety record of any energy source, in fact.

Edited by Nuclear Powered Robots

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@Unendingfear

And until then, uranium fission is BY FAR our best source of energy. It has the best safety record of any energy source, in fact.

Until then? We're literally layering cement with excess thorium and burying it because we're mining up so much unitentionally and not using it. We could start switching today.

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Oh god....

All I have to say, is your lost in the future.

Here and now is what matters. People who dwell in the past or future are blind.

Nuff said.

It won't happen again? So when an earthquake starts we just say "stop"and iy stops? lol

Modern medicine will never overpower nature. Ever hear of AIDs? Or cancer? Even if we learn how to beat these, new illnesses will always take their place.

No. You can't control nature. It doesn't matter how advanced science becomes you will NEVER control nature because science itself is the result of nature.

" Chernobyl is actually impossible to happen again on modern reactors."

Lol what? Was that a serious comment?

" Energy. Propulsion. Space exploration. Scientific progress. Knowledge."

Youre talking about something we don't even understand. How bout we actually understand what we are ********ing with before we make it?

We still don't even know how anti matter is naturally produced.

One thing we do know is that anti matter, microscopic amounts of it, can destroy the whole planets in a split second if it touches matter. So we suspend this anti matter in a vaccuume. We do this having faith that our modern technology will keep this anti matter suspended, away from matter.

We are creating this ******** when it literally doesn't nothing for us other than sit there as a fiat ticking time bomb just waiting for a disaster to release its destruction.

I mean, Id be totally in favor of making anti matter if there were an actual use for it.

But the fact is, were creating destruction in its most physical form for absolutely nothing.

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Oh god....

All I have to say, is your lost in the future.

Here and now is what matters. People who dwell in the past or future are blind.

Nuff said.

It won't happen again? So when an earthquake starts we just say "stop"and iy stops? lol

Modern medicine will never overpower nature. Ever hear of AIDs? Or cancer? Even if we learn how to beat these, new illnesses will always take their place.

No. You can't control nature. It doesn't matter how advanced science becomes you will NEVER control nature because science itself is the result of nature.

" Chernobyl is actually impossible to happen again on modern reactors."

Lol what? Was that a serious comment?

That is until we can directly manipulate techtonic plates, which will very likely be not too very difficult once nanotechnologies become much more advanced. New illnesses will not always take their place. Disease is something that can be beaten. Perhaps not in our lifetimes, but you're ascribing a sense of direction to nature, anthropomorphizing it in almost a malicious sense. AIDS and cancer are only temporary problems. Cancer will be the most difficult to conquer because it is an inevitable result of biological existence, but our treatments are growing more effective all the time. All nature is not created equal. An ant cannot stand up to the earth cannot stand up to a black hole. All are nature yet it would be equally absurd to say that a black hole could not stand up to an ant because both are products of nature.

 Yes it was a serious comment by him. If you actually would take the time to study the state of nuclear power today it'd do you some good.

Edited by Unendingfear

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Manipulating plate techtonics? lol. Thats just asking to be wiped out. Do you realize WHY plate techtonics exist?

New illnesses WILL always take their place. You clearly don't understand evolution and the nature of biology.

You say all nature is not created equal but your wrong. Nature is not a bunch of separate things. Its ONE thing. You and me are only separate because our experience tells us so. But we aren't. Me and you... We are the equivalent of how cells make up a plant. This pattern is endlessly repeated in ever way you can imagine throughout all of existence. We perceive ourselves as separate simply because if the fractal nature of existence. But being a fractal, its actually a singularity.

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"Oh god....

All I have to say, is your lost in the future.

Here and now is what matters. People who dwell in the past or future are blind.

Nuff said.

It won't happen again? So when an earthquake starts we just say "stop"and iy stops? lol"

Fukushima happened only due to a perfect storm of adverse events that is EXTREMELY unlikely if not impossible to happen again. Building a reactor with a weak seawall in front of a tsunami prone coast was a bad idea, it should have been built farther inland.

 

 

Modern medicine will never overpower nature. Ever hear of AIDs? Or cancer? Even if we learn how to beat these, new illnesses will always take their place.

So we shouldn't even try? What should we do then? Nothing?

(and don't say "homeopathy" or "alternative medicine" or "natural medicine". All of those are massive scams that honestly should for the most part be banned due to being nothing more than a massive multibillion dollar fraud)

Look at where medicine was 100 years ago. Look at where it is now.

(also, there has been lots of progress recently on AIDS, and two people have even been fully cured.

 

No. You can't control nature. It doesn't matter how advanced science becomes you will NEVER control nature because science itself is the result of nature.

You are confusing the laws of nature with the events of nature.

 

" Chernobyl is actually impossible to happen again on modern reactors."

Lol what? Was that a serious comment?

Yes. I advise you to educate yourself on nuclear power. Chernobyl's reactor had no confinement structure, something that exists on all currently operating reactors. All confinement structures are routinely stress tested to make sure that they can withstand the force equivalent to multiple airplane crashes, and if it fails the reactor is shut down.

 

" Energy. Propulsion. Space exploration. Scientific progress. Knowledge."

Youre talking about something we don't even understand. How bout we actually understand what we are ******** with before we make it?

If we subscribed to that mentality we would never have made much progress technologically. Of course, with you holding some neo-luddite beliefs, you probably wouldn't mind that much.

We have to synthesize antimatter to study it and learn about how it interacts in order to learn more about it is naturally produced. I don't think you understand how scientific experimentation works.

 

We still don't even know how anti matter is naturally produced.

Wrong.

 

One thing we do know is that anti matter, microscopic amounts of it, can destroy the whole planets in a split second if it touches matter.

You are really showing your ignorance here. A quantity of antimatter can only annihilate an equal quantity of matter.

We have produced about ten nanograms of antimatter ever since antimatter research began. For comparison, the smallest visible grains of sand are about 800 nanograms.

All the antimatter ever artificially created could not even annihilate a quantity of matter large enough to be visible.

 

So we suspend this anti matter in a vaccuume. We do this having faith that our modern technology will keep this anti matter suspended, away from matter.

We are creating this ******** when it literally doesn't nothing for us other than sit there as a fiat ticking time bomb just waiting for a disaster to release its destruction.

Penning traps are only usually used with a few hundred to a few thousand atoms of antimatter at a time. Meaning that if it failed (which it never would), only a few thousands atoms at most would be annihilated.

The more I discuss with people who hold beliefs much like yours, the more my conviction becomes firmer that scientific, technological, and educational progress is the ultimate moral obligation of human society, and that all that stand in the way must be suppressed if necessary.

I mean, Id be totally in favor of making anti matter if there were an actual use for it.

But the fact is, were creating destruction in its most physical form for absolutely nothing.

Edited by Nuclear Powered Robots

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Manipulating plate techtonics? lol. Thats just asking to be wiped out. Do you realize WHY plate techtonics exist?

New illnesses WILL always take their place. You clearly don't understand evolution and the nature of biology.

You say all nature is not created equal but your wrong. Nature is not a bunch of separate things. Its ONE thing. You and me are only separate because our experience tells us so. But we aren't. Me and you... We are the equivalent of how cells make up a plant. This pattern is endlessly repeated in ever way you can imagine throughout all of existence. We perceive ourselves as separate simply because if the fractal nature of existence. But being a fractal, its actually a singularity.

Of course I understand why they exist. I also understand that like any natural phenomena they are not above being manipulated, at micro or macro scale.

 

Oh sure, new things evolve all the time. We as a species are becoming increasingly adept at controling and containing them, however. When was the last empidemic that swept the world killing millions? It was AIDS, some fourty plus years ago. We've become increasingly able to indentify everything about a virus or a bacteria, and more importantly how to erradicate it. Some problems will exist in the meanwhile, from people abusing antibiotics and such, but these are only short term problems.

 

Good lord, I never thought I'd meet a real pantheist. The only thing "uniting" us all is gravity. Beyond that nature is a brute and ignorant beast that needs the light of sapience to transform it into a useful thing.

Edited by Unendingfear

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Of course I understand why they exist. I also understand that like any natural phenomena they are not above being manipulated, at micro or macro scale.

 

Oh sure, new things evolve all the time. We as a species are becoming increasingly adept at controling and containing them, however. When was the last empidemic that swept the world killing millions? It was AIDS, some fourty plus years ago. We've become increasingly able to indetify everything about a virus or a bacteria, and more importantly how to erradicate it. Some problems will exist in the meanwhile, from people abusing antibiotics and such, but these are only short term problems.

 

Good lord, I never thought I'd meet a real pantheist. The only thing "uniting" us all is gravity. Beyond that nature is a brute and ignorant beast that needs the light of sapience to transform it into a useful thing.

Exactly. It is not just the right of humanity to learn to control nature (properly - not the terrible way in which we are doing so right now) and bring scientific, technological, and educational progress to the people. It is our moral obligation to do so.

Manipulating plate techtonics? lol. Thats just asking to be wiped out. Do you realize WHY plate techtonics exist?

Because the earth is geologically active?

We don't have to eliminate plate tectonics, we just have to smooth out its energy releases. As it is, tectonic plates, instead of sliding smoothly past each other, they grind up against each other, building up potential energy until the stress is too much and it is all released in one destructive burst - an earthquake. It is easily possible - and feasible in the near future - to find some way of lubricating the plates so they do not build up earthwuake-causing potential energy.

New illnesses WILL always take their place. You clearly don't understand evolution and the nature of biology.

Not if we learn to take control of evolution and use its power constructively. Gene therapy is very promising.

You say all nature is not created equal but your wrong. Nature is not a bunch of separate things. Its ONE thing. You and me are only separate because our experience tells us so. But we aren't. Me and you... We are the equivalent of how cells make up a plant. This pattern is endlessly repeated in ever way you can imagine throughout all of existence. We perceive ourselves as separate simply because if the fractal nature of existence. But being a fractal, its actually a singularity.

What in the world does this pseudospiritualist, postmodernist New Age nonsense even MEAN?

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1. Didn't say that

2. Oh... So nature doesn't abide by its own laws.... That makes sense....

3. Oh yes... Just like WTC was built to withstand impacts from the largest planes.... Or how Titanic was unsinkable.... Makes perfect sense.

4. I don't think you understand how dangerous it is.

5. Prove it. PLEASE. Of all things you've said here, Id really love to hear this one.

(Cosmology is my passion, fair warning.)

6. Lol no. Quit watching the history channel.

7. Blah Blah Blah. I can sure you I believe nothing unless it goes hand in and with science. You assume I doubt science. Well I doubt your familiarity with it.

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1. Didn't say that

2. Oh... So nature doesn't abide by its own laws.... That makes sense....

3. Oh yes... Just like WTC was built to withstand impacts from the largest planes.... Or how Titanic was unsinkable.... Makes perfect sense.

4. I don't think you understand how dangerous it is.

5. Prove it. PLEASE. Of all things you've said here, Id really love to hear this one.

(Cosmology is my passion, fair warning.)

6. Lol no. Quit watching the history channel.

7. Blah Blah Blah. I can sure you I believe nothing unless it goes hand in and with science. You assume I doubt science. Well I doubt your familiarity with it.

Please use the quote tag. I have absolutely no idea which of my points each of these numbers is addressing.

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Also, none of you have any idea why plate techtonics exist huh? :P

Quote tag doesn't show up on my phone.

Im sure you can figure it out.

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Also, none of you have any idea why plate techtonics exist huh? :P

Quote tag doesn't show up on my phone.

Im sure you can figure it out.

No, I can't. I have no idea what #1 refers to, I have no idea what #2 refers to, I have no idea whether #3 refers to nuclear power or antimatter, I have no idea whether #4 refers to nuclear power or antimatter, I have no idea whether #5 refers to annihilation by antimatter or the synthesis of antimatter, as for #6 I don't watch the history channel, and as for #7 I'd like you to try and argue why anti-progress elements of society SHOULDN'T be suppressed instead of dismissively throwing it aside with snide comments like "blah blah blah".

Also, the quote button actually does show up on the phone. You just have to click on the content of the post first. After that, it'll appear.

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Just tried it, doesn't work.

I any case, as with all debates here, its become another stalemate.

(Loosing interest)

I mean everyone else I argue with could have easily figured out what is responding to what. Its all in order.

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Just tried it, doesn't work.

I any case, as with all debates here, its become another stalemate.

(Loosing interest)

I mean everyone else I argue with could have easily figured out what is responding to what. Its all in order.

Seriously, it's not that hard to explain what #3, 4, and 5 are in response to.

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