Ahovking

Will Russia Invade (Mainland) Ukraine

Will Russia Invade (Mainland) Ukraine    28 members have voted

  1. 1. Will Russia Invade (Mainland) Ukraine

    • Yes
      11
    • No
      15
    • Other
      2

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55 posts in this topic

Personally: Yes, Russia will not act until Crimea votes to join Russia. Once Crimea 'democratically voted' to join Russia, Russia will be free to move to stage two. Over the last two nights there have been a increase in Pro Russian rising in Donetsk, Kharkiv, Odessa As well as others Western cities. The fear is as the 16th comes and go's the Pro Russian in these western cities will increase their activity and becoming more aggressive and calling louder for Russian intervention. 

Already there have been a increase in clashes resulting in 29 people being injured and 1 death, this has been called by the Russians as the beginning of the civil war, a civil war they will not allowed. 

And in recent days there has been another massive build up of Russian military muscle on Ukrainians broader.

uetNqu2.jpg

Also on the sanctions front, Dont make me laugh the limited sanctions  that are being discussed and decided will barely effect Russia with the economical impact that Crimea will have being adsorbed into Russia. As a recent Russia aid has point out, the gain of a 176 billion economy outweighs the damage of limited economical sanctions. 

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USSR MK2.....

on topic, i strongly hope they don't, however gut feeling tells me they are itching too much on that trigger finger, so it will possibly happen

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No.

If Russia was going to invade Ukraine, they would have done it instantly. Ukraines military is nothing compared to Russia. In fact, what Russia has sitting on the border is about half of Ukraines entire military.

There's a reason Russia took Crimea of all places. That reason is: "If we are going to lose Ukraine, we are at least keeping this strategic area."

Unless something very significant happens, I don't see this escalating. Is just going to end the same way Ossetia did in 08.

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No.

If Russia was going to invade Ukraine, they would have done it instantly. Ukraines military is nothing compared to Russia. In fact, what Russia has sitting on the border is about half of Ukraines entire military.

There's a reason Russia took Crimea of all places. That reason is: "If we are going to lose Ukraine, we are at least keeping this strategic area."

Unless something very significant happens, I don't see this escalating. Is just going to end the same way Ossetia did in 08.

A further two Pro Russians people have died (with a total of 3 within 2 days) during clash's, which has fuel the worsening tensions between Ukraine and Russia, If Ukraine cant stop these clashes, and more Pro Russians forces die what better excuse to use for an intervention of a state that's "falling into civil war". 

 

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Thats a good point.

On the other hand, you have to consider what invading Ukraine will actually mean for Russia. Id expect a military response from NATO in that event.

I mean, It would be hard to imagine NATO just letting Russia annex the whole nation. That would be a major blow to our credibility and international interests.

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THEYRE dumb if the government does, sanctions will break their economy. People buy their oil, the government and their economy benefits from it. The government also buys food and other nonsense


Thats a good point.
On the other hand, you have to consider what invading Ukraine will actually mean for Russia. Id expect a military response from NATO in that event.
I mean, It would be hard to imagine NATO just letting Russia annex the whole nation. That would be a major blow to our credibility and international interests.

Yeah I thought that until the news said that Obama told Putin that if they annex ukrane the government will be completely sanctioned.... :ermm:


I hope they don't, war is not a good thing for anyone's economy, well maybe alittle good economy cause of the jobs that the economy makes to create military things : ?

 

I don't understand politics and Russia... All this undeveloped land and they're going to want more???

Edited by PresidentRiley

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I don't think Putin cares about sanctions. His nations economy has been ******** since the USSR fell.

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I don't think Putin cares about sanctions. His nations economy has been ******** since the USSR fell.

Actually I would have to disagree with you there. Despite what you would think about the Russian Economy they are right up there with France, The UK, Brazil, and Italy. Especially if you are looking at PPP. And I would not say that the USSR's economy was all that good, it was almost all artificial which is why when they dissolved the Russian economy virtually imploded overnight. Now a days that are actually some what of an exporting powerhouse. They may not have the best industrial base in the world but they certainly do have the raw resources that others do need. Which is why it makes this so hard, because Russia has integrated itself so perfectly into the global economy that sanctions on them could have rippling effects on everywhere from Eastern Europe, to the US and China. I mean just look at what happened when Sanctions were even mentioned. Nearly every financial exchange in the world fell between 2% and 12%.

Edited by Anhur

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I doubt it. Putin took the Crimea to secure access to the Black Sea. The rest of Ukraine is worthless to him. No strategic resources, no industrial centers, lots of anti-Russian sentiment.

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Anhur, tell that to Russias middle class... Oh wait. Thats not real.

But really, Russia has been an exporting powerhouse since what? 1948 or so?

Locally speaking, the modern Russian Federation is a great example of failed capitalism.

Also, what Divair said.

Well well. According to Kiev, Russian troops tried expanding beyond Crimea.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/15/ukraine-crisis-fatal-clashes-as-tensions-rise-before-crimea-vote-live

I knew a bunch of these Russians were actually Crimean.

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I think history tells us enough... Russia is always after a warm water sea port, they say they'll do anything to get it, and then the other world powers put their foot down.

 

Also Catholics are very violent.

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Well there hasnt been very much foot putting down.

Pretty sure these sanctions will harm Europe as much as it harms Russia in the long term. Assuming it ends as is, the world will eventually get over themselves.

Also, why are we so opposed to this referendum? We now are refusing to aknowledge human rights? (Oh wait! Thats not new.) The west is once again showing its outstanding hypocrisy. Apparently only NATO can invade nations for nothing and reform them.

The more I see from the US side, the more in favor of Russia I am. Not because their right, but because our double standards are a total joke.

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THEYRE dumb if the government does, sanctions will break their economy. People buy their oil, the government and their economy benefits from it. The government also buys food and other nonsense

Yeah I thought that until the news said that Obama told Putin that if they annex ukrane the government will be completely sanctioned.... :ermm:

I hope they don't, war is not a good thing for anyone's economy, well maybe alittle good economy cause of the jobs that the economy makes to create military things : ?

 

I don't understand politics and Russia... All this undeveloped land and they're going to want more???

The problem is you cant sanction Russia like you sanctioned Iran or North Korea, its not an isolated country, for example many NATO members are depended on Russian Gas and would take years to remove that dependency. Sanctioning Russian Gas would cause massive energy shortage overnight and sadly there is no infrastructure currently to support and alternative to Russia energy. 

Sadly sanction wont solve anything, Russia is not a 3rd world nation, its a nuclear great power, its still considered to have the world second most powerful military (shockingly) 

NATO has already ruled out military Intervene In response to Ukraine, 

And its not about land its about Power, 

Edited by Ahovking

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I bet Ukraine would beat the hell out of Russia.

 

Maybe with the help of every other former Soviet bloc state...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the US.

 

Edit: I wonder if the US has considered a deal with Russia - allowing Russia to maintain control of the Crimean region in exchange for Snowden?

 

From the White House's perspective it'd be a fair trade. From the citizenry of the US's standpoint, it'd be a lose-lose.

 

Edit2: 

Ahovking has it right, I think. In order for sanctions against Russia to work, they'd need the full backing of every nation for an extended period of time. The ramifications would be almost as bad for the countries enforcing the sanctions. Russia has a huge wealth of natural gas and oil as well as other resources. This isn't something like Iran. Russia's economy won't collapse under anything we try. It's similar to attempting something like placing a trade embargo with China - the scale is smaller with Russia, but perhaps not by magnitudes.

Edited by SirWinkler

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I bet Ukraine would beat the hell out of Russia.

Your Joking? Even the Ukraine have said they had no chances against Russia, Ukraine lacks readiness, and much of its equipment is in storage, outdated and in small numbers. Russia's Military in considered to be more western and modern (After the 2008-2012 reforms) than Ukrainians military. 

ukraine-russia-data.png

Edited by Ahovking

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Where'd you get those numbers, considering Russia has trouble saying how many troops they have, much less any outside source. A disturbing percentage of their ground forces are poorly trained conscripts, and the reforms you speak are only half finished. 

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Miller, look at my link. Same exact stats.

Source:

CIA world fact book and Library of Congress.

And poorly trained conscripts? I hope by that you mean Ukraine. Because the training a Russian soldier goes through is frequently lethal. I can't think of any nation with a more brutal military tradition. You know what they do to you there? In your first year, all the second years gang up and beat the Hell out of you until you can't see straight. On a regular basis for a whole year.

Then in your second year, you continue the tradition.

Its an age old military tradition in Russia that has been the center of a lot of outrage. But it also produces one tough son of a pitch.

Also, their training Spetznaz in Russia from ages as young as 8.

http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=lZFGCXdjxxU

I love how Americans and westerns discredit the worlds second most powerful military as being "a bunch of conscripts."

Cuz dude, those Spetznaz are scary mother********s.

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@Fox, I don't think that Russia would deploy their entire force to attack Ukraine; and plus western nations don't discredit Russia for anything. We have a system of checks and balances; where one nation talks crap about the others military, and vice-versa. Again Russia has all these beautiful numbers; but it's proven how disorderly the Russian military is. You can find video evidence of drunk Russian soldiers having massive brawls in the middle of their base. 2,000+ Russian Soldiers were just given the "axe" or fired because of that. 

 

Russia by no means isn't weak; but by no means are they just this massive powerful unstoppable force. When was the last war they were in? It was in 2008, where they were fighting the Georgia Republic. Based off the statistics I was reading, Russia was assisted by Abkhazia, and South Ossetia; and the casualties  on both sides were nearly the same. Hmm, since Russia is so badass spetsnaz ninja warrior they should've just murdered Georgia. 

 

A lot of Russian equipment is still very old as well, they JUST developed guns that can fire underwater; and they just made their first amphibious APC that's up to modern quota. Not only that but if the EU decides to take action, Russia is done. If NATO decides to get involved I hope the Russia Crater will still be inhabitable. Germany and France alone would give Russia hell; just go look at the statistics; now all of NATO, aha. 

 

Now lets get out of statistics I hate talking about them, they prove nothing but numerical evidence based of off consensus which sometimes can be written as libel. The will of men under oppression is greater than those who aren't. If the Ukranians step up to the plate; to fight Russia and say 'Not an inch further' the world cannot ignore their plea and will have to take some type of action against Russia; politically or militarily. 

 

I will finish this off with a quote that a retired US Army Ranger, Gulf War veteran told me. You know what nevermind, I won't even tell you bunch; all you'll do it slander the quote and complain war is bad. 

Edited by Zeyrock

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I love how Americans and westerns discredit the worlds second most powerful military as being "a bunch of conscripts."

Cuz dude, those Spetznaz are scary mother********s.

 

Yes, spetznaz is good. Also, literally every number between your site and ahov's is different, some wildly. Except Ukraine's reserve #. Yeah, 1 out of 30 isn't bad.

Edited by miller

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A few points...

1. There's plenty of American soldiers that get into drunken brawls. I watched one once, in fact.

2. Russias military power isn't based on numbers. In terms of numbers, China and the US blow them out of the water. But GFP still ranks them #2 above China. This is probably due to the amount of land based weapons and a Navy that actually works.

3. They did murder Georgia.

Russia:

* Killed: 64

* Wounded: 283

* Missing: 3

* POWs: 5

Georgia:

* Killed: 171

* Wounded: 1,147

* Missing: 11

* POWs: 39

Ossetia:

36 KIA

Abkhazia:

1 KIA

It took Russia 5 days to completely cripple Georgias fighting ability. A war against Ukraine would end in a simaler manner. Because leTSE nsider the similarities. We trained and supplied Georgia troops with their M-16s. (Which they quickly abandoned in favor of the AK)

On another note, Ukraine and Russia are historically like brothers. This is exactly why it hasn't become an actual war, unlike Georgia. There's a lot of mutual respect on both sides. The conflict itself probably feels more like a civil war to the people there than a war against a foreign enemy.

Miller, possibly different times? I know GFP updates its stats once a year, but states next to each stat if the information is older.

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Ukraine and Russia brothers? Ok then why was there a civil uprising to throw out the pro-Russian leader, also Ukraine use to be apart of Russia -Insert Soviet Union here-. 

 

-Insert Russian Brawl Screenshot here

 

Edited by Zeyrock

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