Afforess

Initial resource distribution makes 50% of trade markets useless

12 posts in this topic

The current resource distribution of 1 of each type of the 4 resource categories (Energy, Military, Food, Construction) makes the market mostly pointless.

 

The Energy resource market is completely unbalanced. You can avoid ever needing any of the other energy resources as long as you stick to the power plant type of your starting resource. That makes trading energy resources pointless. 25% of the market, gone.

 

The same problem exists with the food market. It is stated that later on, you will need more food types to feed your nation. Even if this is the case, you won't need more food resources for a long time. The market will cater to a few rich nations buying, leaving demand much lower than supply. While not entirely pointless, the market is heavily unbalanced.

 

Construction resource markets are currently balanced.

 

Military resources are useless due to lack of war, but I understand that will fix that.

 

So 50% of the markets are useless...

 

Fortunately, this is an easy problem to solve. Stop giving each nation 1 of each 4 types of resource. Randomize it. If a nation started with 2 construction and 2 food resources, they would be forced to trade. Same with 4 military resources. Resource distribution is not even in the real world. Project Terra should reflect this.

 

To compensate for the lack of necessary starting resources, provide 2x or 3x of initial resource quantities to any category of resource a nation lacks at the start.

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To be added:
-Health and happiness advantages from feeding your people different kinds of food (marked usefulness 25% restored)
-Balancing of power plants and fuel refining/processing efficiency, including the addition of environmental effects (boom another 25%) (also note that larger nations may want buy fuel to save money due to high costs of refineries at some point)

 

Otherwise, balancing is fine so far. The game needs to be up for abit longer to really tell.

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It's planned to implement pollution at a later time, this would make it better for richer nations to actually run other energy sources than the ones they have the resources to run by themselves.

 

Coal pollutes the most, followed by oil and then natural gas I assume. If you run coal stations (as I do), when you become richer it will probably be in the best interest of your nation to simply cough up the cash and buy natural gas plants and the gas itself from the market.

 

I assume there will be some added benefit from distributing food of all three types to your citizens at some point in the future. Imagine only living on bread for your entire life!

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The market is not unbalanced just because demand is lower than supply (or vice versa). It just means that prices will be lower in that particular market. There's nothing wrong with the construction and food markets for example, having wildly different price ranges for the goods on them. It just makes one of them more useful than the other if you are using the market to make money for your nation. 

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The market is not unbalanced just because demand is lower than supply (or vice versa). It just means that prices will be lower in that particular market. There's nothing wrong with the construction and food markets for example, having wildly different price ranges for the goods on them. It just makes one of them more useful than the other if you are using the market to make money for your nation. 

This, plus, any smart/larger nation will be trading for resources with their alliance members when trading is implemented. Also, once the solar and nuclear plants are implemented again once research is in, you'll see the richer nations start to use those, since they're much more efficient.

Edited by dane0

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To be added:

-Health and happiness advantages from feeding your people different kinds of food (marked usefulness 25% restored)

-Balancing of power plants and fuel refining/processing efficiency, including the addition of environmental effects (boom another 25%) (also note that larger nations may want buy fuel to save money due to high costs of refineries at some point)

 

Otherwise, balancing is fine so far. The game needs to be up for abit longer to really tell.

Health & Happiness will not balance the food market. Not all nations will care about health or happiness, so the demand will remain lower than the supply. Food market will be broken even after the changes occur. If 50% of nations buy extra food to keep them happy, but 100% nations can sell food, then you will have oversupply.

 

It's planned to implement pollution at a later time, this would make it better for richer nations to actually run other energy sources than the ones they have the resources to run by themselves.

 

Coal pollutes the most, followed by oil and then natural gas I assume. If you run coal stations (as I do), when you become richer it will probably be in the best interest of your nation to simply cough up the cash and buy natural gas plants and the gas itself from the market.

 

I assume there will be some added benefit from distributing food of all three types to your citizens at some point in the future. Imagine only living on bread for your entire life!

 

Not all nations will care about pollution. This basically is the same exact situation as the food. If only some nations are buying energy resources, but all nations can sell, you have oversupply. Economics 101.

 

The market is not unbalanced just because demand is lower than supply (or vice versa). It just means that prices will be lower in that particular market. There's nothing wrong with the construction and food markets for example, having wildly different price ranges for the goods on them. It just makes one of them more useful than the other if you are using the market to make money for your nation. 

 

Resource extractors and refineries cost the same across all resource types. Not exactly balanced.

Edited by Afforess

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Not all nations will care that you care....

Nations who simply don't care won't grow to their full potential. I doubt there will be a shortage of those who do care.

Also, the idea of the market is not to make everything cost the same.

Economics 101. Supply and demand. I plan on utilizing much of the market both buying and selling the very resources you claim break it.

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Not all nations will care that you care....

Nations who simply don't care won't grow to their full potential. I doubt there will be a shortage of those who do care.

Also, the idea of the market is not to make everything cost the same.

Economics 101. Supply and demand. I plan on utilizing much of the market both buying and selling the very resources you claim break it.

 

That might be true, if all resources were not treated the same. Resource extractors get more expensive for all resources after each one, so rationally, nations will begin avoiding unnecessary food/energy extractors. The market for food & energy will shrink, as sellers exit the market and favor extractors/refineries that yield more profitable resources. So then there will be fewer buyers and fewer sellers.

 

In a market where extractors/refinery prices are separately priced for each resource, the market would respond with rising prices for the decreased competition. But in the current game, the price rise will not be enough to offset the massive losses you would take for creating a new refinery/extractor. The markets will remain tiny, prices will not move much, and it will be broken.

 

Supply and Demand only works if pricing is elastic.

Edited by Afforess

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You still aren't understanding the supply/demand aspect.

IE: Should people quit buying extracts for resource X in favor of resource Y because X is not valuable, then resource X naturally becomes more valuable.

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I could definitely see the possibility of some nations opting to buy resources instead of buying more extractors/refineries, with the idea that importing would potentially be cheaper than producing. Whether or not that's a reality is to be seen. I, personally, like the system that's currently in place.

 

I'm still going to produce my own stuff. Can't refuse a good deal on the market, though.

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I could definitely see the possibility of some nations opting to buy resources instead of buying more extractors/refineries, with the idea that importing would potentially be cheaper than producing. Whether or not that's a reality is to be seen. I, personally, like the system that's currently in place.

 

I'm still going to produce my own stuff. Can't refuse a good deal on the market, though.

 

I did get to that point last time the game was up.

Being an industrial powerhouse for pumping out steel, it was more profitable to buy more iron extractors/refineries and to just buy fuel on the market.

As the price of low-demand things goes down (like food and fuel) then the demand will go up. The more nations that are in the game, and the longer it stays up, then the more balanced and stable the market will become.

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Beyond just the base price for extractors and refineries, remember that the wage you pay workers is based on your average income. Therefore, as your nation becomes more developed, you'll see the outlay on employing people to produce resources go up. That can make it significantly cheaper to simply buy on the market, than produce it all yourself.

 

Also, Afforess, you say that some nations don't care about happiness, or health. That might be true in roleplaying terms, however in mechanical terms, to improve your nation you need to maximise income. In order to maximise income, you need to care about the various factors that affect your income, including but not limited to health and happiness.

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