dane0

Scaling Resource and Price Cost on CIties

27 posts in this topic

So, I'd brought this up earlier in another topic, but I'd just like to highlight this for everyone so you all can see how the dev's have inadvertently created a top 1% that will be basically unattainable for us to reach.

 

So, here's a screenshot of my nation page. Pretty basic nation, I will admit I'm pretty high up there, since I'm in the top 100 nations. But I'm only at 1.3 million population, while the top nations are at 1.9 million+

8DdX3Yb.png

 

So, as you can see, I bring in a decent amount of money, and I have a pretty decent population.

 

Let's take a look at my cities screen.

9rYBdL6.png

One thing stands out here, and that's that I'm only on my 3rd built city, and my next one is already gonna cost me 1.6 billion dollars. But that's acceptable, oh well, it'll take some time. 

 

Let's see what it will take my to upgrade that 3rd city to a metro.

Cm7Wcca.png

Yes, you're reading that right. It will cost me 50k resources and 1.2 billion dollars just to upgrade my 3rd city, to gain 100,000 people, which is 1/7 the difference between me and the top nation. That's easily 2.6 billion dollars plus that I need to invest to even start to catch up.

 

 

2.6 billion dollars will take me 26 days to collect. That's 1/3 of the time my nation has even existed. The top nations have only been here for like 20 more days than I have. 

 

 

 

 

Basically, I get that you guys introduced the scaling resources to try and balance the game more, or whatever reason. But you way overdid it, and created an unattainable top rank of nations that we will never catch up to. Sure, have scaling resources, but not by this much.

 

 

Apologies for if this is confusing to read, I'll explain anything if you have any questions. But this does need to be addressed.

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#middleclass problems. 

 

We're just increasing the realism of the game is all :P

 

 

All kidding aside, it's a very valid point. 

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I gotta admit, I'm not big on the vast amount of resources needed to upgrade. I get it might add some realism but 50K of each resource? Add the costs of buying that onto the costs of dane's next city and he's looking at a final price of well over 2 billion.

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I agree, i'm not a big fan of all the vast amount of resources needed to upgrade, Personally the cost for buying or upgrading cities seem to increase to steep, 

I've hit the point where like dane0, it will take me weeks to upgrade my cities.. so while it will take me weeks just to upgrade one of my cites, the 'top 5' nation skyrocket ahead. 

How we fix the problem, i wouldn't have a clue tho. 

Edited by Ahovking

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I gotta admit, I'm not big on the vast amount of resources needed to upgrade. I get it might add some realism but 50K of each resource? Add the costs of buying that onto the costs of dane's next city and he's looking at a final price of well over 2 billion.

And the price of 25 more warehouses, which also scale in price. I'd easily say I'm looking at about 2.3 billion or above.

Edited by dane0

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I've also noticed the same thing along with the current effects on the resource market. I may be wrong but it seems like demand is out pacing supply driving the cost up. It makes me wonder if, in the futur, resource production will be able to keep up with the massive resource requirement of upgrades while dealing with diminishing returns of resource production.

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The problem I see with having so many things scale (resource production cost, new city cost, city upgrade money cost, city upgrade resource cost, land cost) is that it makes it exponentially harder to grow. According to the in-game descriptions, city growth is the primary way we are supposed to achieve population growth. But if I can naturally grow population by 150,000 in less time than it takes to save up enough to get a new metropolis, I don't see how this can be the case.

I only have two metropolises, and I've already reached a point where my natural growth far outstrips my growth from city development. As my population rises, this problem will only get worse, not better.

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Aye, I agree. I understand that this is a slow-paced game and that too much gain in too little time makes people feel entitled and causes others to leave after they "unlock everything", but the current scaling seems rather unfair.

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And the price of 25 more warehouses, which also scale in price. I'd easily say I'm looking at about 2.3 billion or above.

 

Warehouse prices do not scale. The only increasing costs you'd have from multiple warehouses is the increase powergrid.

 

I can understand the frustration with not being able to climb quickly into the upper echelon of nations, however I can also understand the need for the game to have a long-range vision. Everyone has had an equal chance to climb, those at the top simply started taking advantage of the market system sooner. There's no way their income alone would have allowed them to reach that level.

 

Even with the current market system, supply and demand will play a large role in the costs of resources. Even more so given the fact that trading is not implemented so nations are dependent upon the market system. Not only to make extra income via profitable resource sales, but to attain resources their nation does not produce.

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Warehouse prices do not scale. The only increasing costs you'd have from multiple warehouses is the increase powergrid.

 

This must have changed then, I surely remember the wareshouses costing me quite a pretty penny when I bought them like 5 weeks ago

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I just tested it. Bout 3 different warehouses individually, each only cost 660 for resources and 1mil a piece.

 

I know in the old days they scaled as well. Jester said they decided not to increase in cost as it would basically be double-hitting a nation trying to grow as they have the higher increase on city growth.

 

However, discussing it now, I wonder if they realize that it will cause issues later. In PT2.0Alpha, Warehouses were very closely tied with maximum size of military allowed. With basically unlimited availability of warehouses, a nation can slam out a huge military....

 

In the previous incarnation, you were maxed on size of military because the increasing costs for a warehouse eventually out-paced the cost to build a warehouse.

Edited by Micheal Malone

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1 question and 2 ideas to offer

 

Mr. Dane0 the resident wooky how did you manage to get your capital to 250,000 population?

 

My ideas to offer

 

1. You could base costs off you population density instead of a persistent increase in costs as most who look at the nation rankings might notice most top nations are at least a little overcrowded.

Establish a new base cost for everything and a base population density to be the zero level (The point with no added cost or subtracted cost).

More land means it is easier to find space without displaceing or less displacement of your people.

 

2. The other idea would require there be a statistical measuring of all nations because it would be set up so that thouse at the top would bear the full cost of new construction but thous near the bottom would get a discount based on what precent of the nations have gotten to that level (if 50% of the nations in the game have 2 cities then the 2nd city cost is 50% less, if only 1% of nations have a 5th city then the cost of that 5th city is 99% of normal) This is an idea i had for a different genre of games but i adapted it to offer here.

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IMHO, I have no problem with the financial cost of building new cities. But the required resources are high, and the cost/required resources for upgrading is quite high as well.

Mr. Dane0 the resident wooky how did you manage to get your capital to 250,000 population?

Good question. How did you get YOUR capital to 250,000 population? :P

BTW, I just noticed DaneOs nation name. lol. :P

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I agree fully Dane0 (and I say this as one of the top 10 nations ATM) problem is if they scale it down now, the more advanced nations will have an even greater advantage given they have a larger daily income...

Edited by Garibaldi

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aye, it's really steep now, and has definitely slowed my nation's growth from say, like a month ago....although, i think that some of the sting of amassing the resources will be taken out once trading is implemented, as you'd no longer need to buy all (or possibly any) of your resources on the market--and the overall costs of purchasing resources on the market should fall as well...

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It would be nice if the scale was more... Logarithmic than Exponential. I've played too many games that keep me as some Africa-Tier Third-World Nation. And, after all, the bigger they are the harder they fall. Bigger nations make for a more interesting meta. :nuke:

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It would be nice if the scale was more... Logarithmic than Exponential. I've played too many games that keep me as some Africa-Tier Third-World Nation. And, after all, the bigger they are the harder they fall. Bigger nations make for a more interesting meta. :nuke:

If you've ever played Cybernations, you know that it's actually quite the opposite. Entire wars are fought around protecting your god nations from actually having to do any attacks.

 

 

 

 

And uh, are we gonna get any response to this from the devs/mods other than "I agree"?

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If you've ever played Cybernations, you know that it's actually quite the opposite. Entire wars are fought around protecting your god nations from actually having to do any attacks.

Aw.

 

I tried playing CN, but I don't feel like starting a new nation on a dying cult-classic whose sides are entrenched harder than the Germans were on that beachfront in Normandy.

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Don't believe warehouses aren't necessarily scaling; they require 10MW of power each, so the 25 needed to upgrade cities is about 2/3 of an oil plant - and the energy resources it takes to power them. I would like to see some kind of energy break the more you have.

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Ok this is getting stupid fast.  120 warehouses just to upgrade a city?  Are you kidding me?

 

Pretty soon, the majority of a nation's power plants devoted solely to warehouses, which makes 0 sense.  

 

I understand the developers want to make upgrading successive cities more difficult, but there comes a point where it goes beyond all bounds of reason.   

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Eh. It's too late now. I'm in the top 5 pages of nations finally. However, the number one nation has 1.4 million more population than I do. Aka a whole 4-5 more cities. Which means like, another 200 more warehouses.

 

 

Until war is implemented, it's going to be impossible to get anywhere near the top nations.

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Ok this is getting stupid fast.  120 warehouses just to upgrade a city?  Are you kidding me?

 

Pretty soon, the majority of a nation's power plants devoted solely to warehouses, which makes 0 sense.  

 

I understand the developers want to make upgrading successive cities more difficult, but there comes a point where it goes beyond all bounds of reason.   

 

What if cities had resource upkeep, partially or completely replacing the resource component of the initial upgrade cost?

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I was shocked at the 1.2 billion dollar price tag to upgrade to a metro and on top of that the cost of the resources required to do it.  The cost is not what I find being the problem.

 

What I would like to see is unique cities.  I should be able to build x amount of refineries and extractors in one city compared to another.  Have a specialized city.  Put a "wonder" in a specific city.  Or an international airport or harbor/port or WTC etc...the potential is endless.

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