Ahovking

Rant:

80 posts in this topic

Just need to vent

Just because we the people still have the right to private property doesn't make our nation capitalist, We are boiling out banks, corporation, wages are stagnate, living cost are rising to fast and the poor increasing in numbers, we didn't see any of this 100 years ago before welfare or Government let market intervention.

150 years, banks and
corporations weren't bails out, but was left to fail and to be replace by more effect, efficient banks and corporations, wages and business profits were rising at the same speed, and the poor were becoming fewer and fewer.

today's mixed system where the right calls it “our new socialist system” and the left says “the old failing system” In truth, this is not socialism or capitalism, but an extension of longstanding corporate welfarism. The rich and powerful turn to the government to help them whenever they can, while needy individuals get little social protection.

This is not a failure of capitalism but a failure of democracy, By supporting Governments intervention in markets breaking the most fundamental pillars of capitalism “no state intervention”. The state has in the interest of business, corporations and lobbying groups expanded its corporate safety net in unprecedented ways, from commercial banks to investment banks, then to insurance and now to cars, with no end in sight.   
 

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just wait for 50 years and hopefully (mind i did say hopefully) the US can change for the better. The party in which the Major Corporations support on (the GOP am i right?) is so crazy insane it seems the Democrats will take Congress, Senate, AND the Presidency by 2016.

 

But that is only my Opinion from someone from a third world nation. '

 

 

EDIT: Oh crap i saw that you live in Australia..........damn, how do you delete posts?

Edited by Ax3hunter

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Just a question for you, as I just had an argument about it yesterday. What are your opinions on a federal minimum wage, labor laws, and environmental regulation? Is that not a form of state intervention in business?

Edited by Dabigbluewhale

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Yeah. This is the problem with capitalism.

And it's not so much a failure of democracy and government intervention, it's called corruption. The ******** banks and corporations get away with is terrible.

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150 years, banks and corporations weren't bails out, but was left to fail and to be replace by more effect, efficient banks and corporations

 

This system crashed the world economy (mainly in the United States) in the late 20s/early 30s. It doesn't work as efficiently as it sounds.

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@Dabigbluewhale: you're asking my opinion right? 

 

For once i think the US government should raise the minimum wage. You can see from this ted talk (can't find it directly from ted so i found an alternative link) about a millionare talking about the true job creators: 

 

 

he clearly says that the Big business dudes are not the true job creators. 

 

OOC: Mods.....it's okay for me to post videos (at least the links) right?

 

labor laws are okay. But as long as those laws maintain the 'dignity' of the common worker (like okay wages, insurance covered, healthcare money etc) and NOT make them lazy snails who does nothing but whine.

 

Environmental is of utmost importance for the long term economic planning of the US. But for now Congress needs to stop screwing over Obama (government shutdown) and cooperate. THEN the US government can focus their efforts into conserving the environment, since we don't have a sustainable colony on Mars and Earth is our only home

 

@Fox Fire: Capitalism CAN work. You just need to (as with all systems i think) control them so they do not backfire like in the 1920s-1930s, and 2008-2009. And coraling the major corporations and stop lobbying are really good steps to ensure it. Just wait till 2016 (that is if you're american)

Edited by Ax3hunter

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Capitalism is the best though.

Other economic "solutions", if they can be called that, aren't as good as capitalism. Let's simply help bail out companies, raise minimum wage, implement universal healthcare, reform the Welfare system, don't recognize corporations as people, get our education system back up there competing for first place, offer more generous grants or make advanced education free, break up monopolies that aren't allowing competition, and work from there.

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just wait for 50 years and hopefully (mind i did say hopefully) the US can change for the better. The party in which the Major Corporations support on (the GOP am i right?) is so crazy insane it seems the Democrats will take Congress, Senate, AND the Presidency by 2016.

 

But that is only my Opinion from someone from a third world nation. '

 

 

EDIT: Oh crap i saw that you live in Australia..........damn, how do you delete posts?

 

Rupublicrat, Demican, it's all the same smell. It's an illusion to pit citizens against each other while the fabric is torn. As Napoleon said, divide and conquer.

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Rupublicrat, Demican, it's all the same smell. It's an illusion to pit citizens against each other while the fabric is torn. As Napoleon said, divide and conquer.

 

I find it hard to reply to someone who doesn't spell Republican or Democrat correctly. Democracy itself is a system that needs to be constantly maintained, but by far it is the ultimate system to ensure that no one corrupt can rise up to power. Just because there are a few hiccups like we saw in the late 2000s doesn't mean that Democracy isn't effective

 

 

@Fox: That i agree with you. 

 

@Evan051: not sure if joking or being serious

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I find it hard to reply to someone who doesn't spell Republican or Democrat correctly. Democracy itself is a system that needs to be constantly maintained, but by far it is the ultimate system to ensure that no one corrupt can rise up to power. Just because there are a few hiccups like we saw in the late 2000s doesn't mean that Democracy isn't effective

It's a play on words - if English is not your first language, you probably wouldn't get it.

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I do notice the play of words. You spelled the last spelling backwards in order to confuse anyone who's reading the post. But let's not dwell in some random play of words. Why do you say it's an illusion pit for citizens so that the 'fabric' is torn? surely you must have some form of explanation.

 

 

 

Sorry if i offended or irritate you in any way Kinyodas. It's just some internet debate

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Well, actually I was asking Ahovking, but it's k :P

 

I ask because he seems to imply that the state intervening with businesses in any way is a bad thing (my apologies if you weren't, that's just what I got out of it) and I can't really agree that a completely deregulated capitalist system would ever work. I was arguing about it with someone and he was saying something about taking out all regulation, including a federal minimum wage, stating that the market makes the best decision on wages and I was just wondering if you agreed with that sentiment.

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Just a question for you, as I just had an argument about it yesterday. What are your opinions on a federal minimum wage, labor laws, and environmental regulation? Is that not a form of state intervention in business?

Yes minimum wage, labor laws, and environmental regulation are all forms of state intervention. 

Now the job of government is to "intervene" to protect the rights of of the individual while creating an environment where businesses thrive. So in a sense there is some forms of state interventions but no where near the levels we have today or levels proposed by the left. 

So although it is technically correct that even capitalism has some forms of state intervention, its limited and small.

(If we are talking about laissez faire however then there are no state intervention what so ever)

Yeah. This is the problem with capitalism.

And it's not so much a failure of democracy and government intervention, it's called corruption. The ******** banks and corporations get away with is terrible.

The job of government is to keep banks and corporations playing a fair, in this the government has failed, allowing them to break fundamental laws of capitalism and our rights.

Why do you think banks and corporations get away with terrible thing? why isn't regulations and government intervention stopping or helping the situation?

This system crashed the world economy (mainly in the United States) in the late 20s/early 30s. It doesn't work as efficiently as it sounds.

Its called Booms and busts, they don't crash the world economies but cause growth declines not collapses of economies.

@Dabigbluewhale: you're asking my opinion right? 

 

For once i think the US government should raise the minimum wage. You can see from this ted talk (can't find it directly from ted so i found an alternative link) about a millionare talking about the true job creators: 

 

 

he clearly says that the Big business dudes are not the true job creators. 

 

OOC: Mods.....it's okay for me to post videos (at least the links) right?

 

labor laws are okay. But as long as those laws maintain the 'dignity' of the common worker (like okay wages, insurance covered, healthcare money etc) and NOT make them lazy snails who does nothing but whine.

 

Environmental is of utmost importance for the long term economic planning of the US. But for now Congress needs to stop screwing over Obama (government shutdown) and cooperate. THEN the US government can focus their efforts into conserving the environment, since we don't have a sustainable colony on Mars and Earth is our only home

 

@Fox Fire: Capitalism CAN work. You just need to (as with all systems i think) control them so they do not backfire like in the 1920s-1930s, and 2008-2009. And coraling the major corporations and stop lobbying are really good steps to ensure it. Just wait till 2016 (that is if you're american)

Big businesses can afforded minimal wage small businesses cant however, i have personal experience with this, in Australia when minimum wage was increase, my mother and father had to close down the business because we couldn't afford the new wages..

Minimal wage should only be for large business and corporations, the small mum and dad businesses cant afford rising cost of living, production and now a rising minimum wage. 

Even now as i try and set up my own businesses its bloody hard and i cant afford to hire anyone because i want earn enough to pay for the high wages.. i don't know if i will be able to get this thing off the ground. 

And for the last thing you said, i agree.

Well, actually I was asking Ahovking, but it's k :P

 

I ask because he seems to imply that the state intervening with businesses in any way is a bad thing (my apologies if you weren't, that's just what I got out of it) and I can't really agree that a completely deregulated capitalist system would ever work. I was arguing about it with someone and he was saying something about taking out all regulation, including a federal minimum wage, stating that the market makes the best decision on wages and I was just wondering if you agreed with that sentiment.

Completely deregulated capitalist system has worked but it didn't last very long (10 years before failing apart i believe )but, no i'm not advocating a completely deregulated capitalist system,

Personal i HATE minimum wage as its preventing me creating my business. I need 3 employees and i cant even afford one (In Australia our minimum wage is $16.87 per hour )

The market might say their are more small businesses then large so wages should be at a level most if not all small businesses can afford.. and by forcing wages higher and ignoring that what the market your killing off small business.

Instead of forcing wages higher and keeping potential job makers like myself out of the market, we should work on lowering the cost of living and lowing production cost.

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Yes minimum wage, labor laws, and environmental regulation are all forms of state intervention. Now the job of government is to "intervene" to protect the rights of of the individual while creating an environment where businesses thrive. So in a sense there is some forms of state interventions but no where near the levels we have today or levels proposed by the left. So although it is technically correct that even capitalism has some forms of state intervention, its limited and small.(If we are talking about laissez faire however then there are no state intervention what so ever)The job of government is to keep banks and corporations playing a fair, in this the government has failed, allowing them to break fundamental laws of capitalism and our rights.Why do you think banks and corporations get away with terrible thing? why isn't regulations and government intervention stopping or helping the situation?Its called Booms and busts, they don't crash the world economies but cause growth declines not collapses of economies.Big businesses can afforded minimal wage small businesses cant however, i have personal experience with this, in Australia when minimum wage was increase, my mother and father had to close down the business because we couldn't afford the new wages..Minimal wage should only be for large business and corporations, the small mum and dad businesses cant afford rising cost of living, production and now a rising minimum wage. Even now as i try and set up my own businesses its bloody hard and i cant afford to hire anyone because i want earn enough to pay for the high wages.. i don't know if i will be able to get this thing off the ground. And for the last thing you said, i agree.Completely deregulated capitalist system has worked but it didn't last very long (10 years before failing apart i believe )but, no i'm not advocating a completely deregulated capitalist system,Personal i HATE minimum wage as its preventing me creating my business. I need 3 employees and i cant even afford one (In Australia our minimum wage is $16.87 per hour )The market might say their are more small businesses then large so wages should be at a level most if not all small businesses can afford.. and by forcing wages higher and ignoring that what the market your killing off small business.Instead of forcing wages higher and keeping potential job makers like myself out of the market, we should work on lowering the cost of living and lowing production cost.

Because if the government has an interest in something, they do what they do.

Corruption.

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Well, actually I was asking Ahovking, but it's k :P

 

I ask because he seems to imply that the state intervening with businesses in any way is a bad thing (my apologies if you weren't, that's just what I got out of it) and I can't really agree that a completely deregulated capitalist system would ever work. I was arguing about it with someone and he was saying something about taking out all regulation, including a federal minimum wage, stating that the market makes the best decision on wages and I was just wondering if you agreed with that sentiment.

 

I don't say that State Businesses are a bad thing. I just say that the government should intervene in Business matters since we have seen that big businesses cannot be trusted on their own (if 2008-2009 is any indication). 

 

 

Completely deregulated capitalist system has worked but it didn't last very long (10 years before failing apart i believe )but, no i'm not advocating a completely deregulated capitalist system,

Personal i HATE minimum wage as its preventing me creating my business. I need 3 employees and i cant even afford one (In Australia our minimum wage is $16.87 per hour )

The market might say their are more small businesses then large so wages should be at a level most if not all small businesses can afford.. and by forcing wages higher and ignoring that what the market your killing off small business.

Instead of forcing wages higher and keeping potential job makers like myself out of the market, we should work on lowering the cost of living and lowing production cost.

 

I understand your problem since back here in my Nation's capital the local governor has raised the minimum wage by 44% (and admittedly it ruffled the feathers of several prominent local businessmen). 

 

Personally i think the government should form some sort of 'starting money' in order to start small businesses to grow. If Tony Abbott is Pro Business as he advocated then he should understand the problem of the high minimum wage but do consider the issue of lowering the quality of life for the average Australian.

 

This 'starting money' can be in the form of loans, compensations, or anything in between

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Its called Booms and busts, they don't crash the world economies but cause growth declines not collapses of economies.

 

The US GDP dropped nearly fifty percent...that's more than just a growth decline. No economy just loses fifty percent of its output without something being horribly wrong.

Edited by chrisford

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Personally i think the government should form some sort of 'starting money' in order to start small businesses to grow. If Tony Abbott is Pro Business as he advocated then he should understand the problem of the high minimum wage but do consider the issue of lowering the quality of life for the average Australian.

 

This 'starting money' can be in the form of loans, compensations, or anything in between

A person who just left school in year 10 is worth around $7.. why? because he cant go out and make a chair worth $300 but due to his education can only get a job making $2.00 burgers at mac, Forcing employees to pay more for a worker not because he can make enough for you to pay him a higher wage but because standards of living are rising therefor you should force businesses to pay more will harm businesses and jobs will become fewer. 

The problem with start up money for businesses is that the starting money needs to be a content flow not just one payments,

Because if the government has an interest in something, they do what they do.

Corruption.

Historically the corruption we are seeing today are still low on a global stranded.. unlike the socialist state of Cuba or the USSR where Corruption was so high they ranked as high as many underdeveloped African states. Capitalism seems to be the lest Corrupt system we have.

I don't say that State Businesses are a bad thing. I just say that the government should intervene in Business matters since we have seen that big businesses cannot be trusted on their own (if 2008-2009 is any indication). 

The Market will punish those who do bad and try and cheat the system.. and that's just what happen to many of the banks and corporations that cause the GFC, they all were about to all go into bankrupt, but then Government came in and intervene in bail outs.. this is why Government shouldn't intervene in the market, Because the business sector will have this idea that we can go on cheating the system, if everything falls apart we will be bailed out again because its in the interest of the government and the worker..

If the banks and corporations were left to go bankrupt, it would of put the fear of god into the rest of them to shape up because if they try any funny business they wont be saved.

The US GDP dropped nearly fifty percent...that's more than just a growth decline. No economy just loses fifty percent of its output without something being horribly wrong.

The US GDP dropped 1.6 trillion, dropping from around 15 trillion to 14.50 trillion then recovers around 2011 with 15.20 trillion.

That is NO WHERE NEAR fifty percent.

No other economical system can withstand a hit that hard, and recovers.

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Haha. Well I live with a Russian immigrant who whole heartedly claims that corruption under Putin is far worse than anything the Soviets achieved (excluding Stalin).

To that, I can't argue. The modern russian government doesn't just let criminals exist, they empower them, because everyone knows who runs Russia.

As we sit back and revel in the old mafia days, in Russia, it's actually happening. Only people don't talk about it or they wind up dead in an apartment or a ditch. Capitalism advocates a system where every day life depends on currency. The long term is ignored (as always) and everyone becomes focused on (directly or indirectly) whoever has it. Whoever can provide it.

But as ********ed up as it all is, Russia's turn to democracy is some thriving example just because it happened. When in reality, it's a perfect example of how capitalism fails.

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A person who just left school in year 10 is worth around $7.. why? because he cant go out and make a chair worth $300 but due to his education can only get a job making $2.00 burgers at mac, Forcing employees to pay more for a worker not because he can make enough for you to pay him a higher wage but because standards of living are rising therefor you should force businesses to pay more will harm businesses and jobs will become fewer. 

 

The Market will punish those who do bad and try and cheat the system.. and that's just what happen to many of the banks and corporations that cause the GFC, they all were about to all go into bankrupt, but then Government came in and intervene in bail outs.. this is why Government shouldn't intervene in the market, Because the business sector will have this idea that we can go on cheating the system, if everything falls apart we will be bailed out again because its in the interest of the government and the worker..

If the banks and corporations were left to go bankrupt, it would of put the fear of god into the rest of them to shape up because if they try any funny business they wont be saved.

The teenager if he/she is paid a higher wage can afford more stuff on their own. When the teenagers buy more stuff from a store the store profit. And if the ball continues to roll we might see a resurgent middle class economy that will be thanking the government for the high minimum wages and a resurgent economy powered by increasing supply and demand. The government can work better due to the increase of trust by the local populace and everyone profits

 

 

state run businesses is a must. The government must AT LEAST run the basic power systems like water, electricity, and waste management because most businesses today is profit driven and will try to cut corners.

 

In my country the government runs a highly profitable bank company, a massive electricity company, a water pumping company (forgot what's it's called) that runs water into households, and an oil, and gas drilling company (although one of our future candidates say they will add refining into the mix) who makes 2.7 billion dollar clean profit from 2012 data and enters number 122 in the Fortune global. And so far the local populace is more or less satisfied with the companies supplying them with gas, electricity, water, and fuel.

 

They are highly profitable (if the oil drilling company is any indication), creates jobs, and it encouraged competition and economic growth (our 2012 GDP averaged around 6%) instead of otherwise

 

which brings me to the last point of government intervention of the economy. The government should intervene in the economy because it is their job to provide it's citizens with pure water, electricity, and all other necessities. Remember that economics is the management of resources and Major companies want to focus those resources for themselves (because of profit) and would only hire people as a last resort (watch the Ted talk)

 

 

 

besides it's the lobbyists fault that the US bail those Major MNC's and they keep outsourcing their workforce, not the US government. 

Edited by Ax3hunter

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Haha. Well I live with a Russian immigrant who whole heartedly claims that corruption under Putin is far worse than anything the Soviets achieved (excluding Stalin).

To that, I can't argue. The modern russian government doesn't just let criminals exist, they empower them, because everyone knows who runs Russia.

As we sit back and revel in the old mafia days, in Russia, it's actually happening. Only people don't talk about it or they wind up dead in an apartment or a ditch. Capitalism advocates a system where every day life depends on currency. The long term is ignored (as always) and everyone becomes focused on (directly or indirectly) whoever has it. Whoever can provide it.

But as ********ed up as it all is, Russia's turn to democracy is some thriving example just because it happened. When in reality, it's a perfect example of how capitalism fails.

Russia is not a democracy nor is it capitalist.

 

The teenager if he/she is paid a higher wage can afford more stuff on their own. When the teenagers buy more stuff from a store the store profit. And if the ball continues to roll we might see a resurgent middle class economy that will be thanking the government for the high minimum wages and a resurgent economy powered by increasing supply and demand. The government can work better due to the increase of trust by the local populace and everyone profits

 

 

state run businesses is a must. The government must AT LEAST run the basic power systems like water, electricity, and waste management because most businesses today is profit driven and will try to cut corners.

 

In my country the government runs a highly profitable bank company, a massive electricity company, a water pumping company (forgot what's it's called) that runs water into households, and an oil, and gas drilling company (although one of our future candidates say they will add refining into the mix) who makes 2.7 billion dollar clean profit from 2012 data and enters number 122 in the Fortune global. And so far the local populace is more or less satisfied with the companies supplying them with gas, electricity, water, and fuel.

 

They are highly profitable (if the oil drilling company is any indication), creates jobs, and it encouraged competition and economic growth (our 2012 GDP averaged around 6%) instead of otherwise

 

which brings me to the last point of government intervention of the economy. The government should intervene in the economy because it is their job to provide it's citizens with pure water, electricity, and all other necessities. Remember that economics is the management of resources and Major companies want to focus those resources for themselves (because of profit) and would only hire people as a last resort (watch the Ted talk)

 

 

 

besides it's the lobbyists fault that the US bail those Major MNC's and they keep outsourcing their workforce, not the US government.

The problem is that the teenager wont get the job to afford his own stuff.. i wouldn't pay a high school drop out $15 an hour.. because per hour he might makes me $10 and i'm paying him $15.. ill go bankrupt....

Rising minimum wage benefits the worker and big businesses the loser is small businesses and competition and the consumer choice).

And yes businesses are profit driven which is why you get better customer services than from government departments.. there can be exceptions however. The happier the customer the more they would be willing to pay. Prices cant be high or people wont buy from them but prices cant be too low or they go bankrupt so a goldilocks price rage is established which is both fair for the consumer and business.

​The problem is when monopolies are allowed to be formed.. it is then prices constantly rise and we can help but to buy from the only chouse. sadly government polices support monopolies more than competition.

Now in your country these profitable bank company, a massive electricity company, a water pumping company are all monopolized, its the same problem we have in my country and most of the world.. you have water, electricity, and waste management all being monopolized and with no threat of competition they can screw the people and we have no choose but to accept.. that's not capitalism.

Look at the republic of Georgia, they deregulating and privatized its hospital market and liberalized the pharmaceutical industry and the result was 100 new hospitals (using private money) all being built within 2 years and medicine now 30% cheaper

and South Africa, by privatizing safari and hunting parks they result was income in the countryside increased (business reinvesting into the community to increase potential consumers) and wildlife populations are now stable or growing.

Privatization only works if you don't Privatize an monopolize something our governments fail to see. We all could have pure cheap water, cheap electricity, and all other necessities at a low cost if we strongly regulated these sectors while ensuring no monopolies can be formed and everyone plays by fair rules, then prices will full as they attempt to make consumer buy from them and not the competition.. basically using their greed against them for the benefit of the people..

​(And when i say competition i don't mean 1 or 3 entities but 5-10 entities)

 

And no its was the economist, the leftist politician, the lobbyists and those who see capitalism as failing called on for bail outs. When government gets to big it can be used by the worst kind of men to do the worst kind of action.. this is why i want a limited government. 

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I will form a reply tomorrow. Really bad internet connection for today

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Russia is not a democracy nor is it capitalist.

Just because it's a ******** example doesn't make it something other than what it is. Russia is a democracy by definition, and if it isn't capitalist, what is it?

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The problem is that the teenager wont get the job to afford his own stuff.. i wouldn't pay a high school drop out $15 an hour.. because per hour he might makes me $10 and i'm paying him $15.. ill go bankrupt....

Rising minimum wage benefits the worker and big businesses the loser is small businesses and competition and the consumer choice).

And yes businesses are profit driven which is why you get better customer services than from government departments.. there can be exceptions however. The happier the customer the more they would be willing to pay. Prices cant be high or people wont buy from them but prices cant be too low or they go bankrupt so a goldilocks price rage is established which is both fair for the consumer and business.

​The problem is when monopolies are allowed to be formed.. it is then prices constantly rise and we can help but to buy from the only chouse. sadly government polices support monopolies more than competition.

Now in your country these profitable bank company, a massive electricity company, a water pumping company are all monopolized, its the same problem we have in my country and most of the world.. you have water, electricity, and waste management all being monopolized and with no threat of competition they can screw the people and we have no choose but to accept.. that's not capitalism.

Look at the republic of Georgia, they deregulating and privatized its hospital market and liberalized the pharmaceutical industry and the result was 100 new hospitals (using private money) all being built within 2 years and medicine now 30% cheaper

and South Africa, by privatizing safari and hunting parks they result was income in the countryside increased (business reinvesting into the community to increase potential consumers) and wildlife populations are now stable or growing.

Privatization only works if you don't Privatize an monopolize something our governments fail to see. We all could have pure cheap water, cheap electricity, and all other necessities at a low cost if we strongly regulated these sectors while ensuring no monopolies can be formed and everyone plays by fair rules, then prices will full as they attempt to make consumer buy from them and not the competition.. basically using their greed against them for the benefit of the people..

​(And when i say competition i don't mean 1 or 3 entities but 5-10 entities)

 

And no its was the economist, the leftist politician, the lobbyists and those who see capitalism as failing called on for bail outs. When government gets to big it can be used by the worst kind of men to do the worst kind of action.. this is why i want a limited government. 

 

I'm not that familiar with Australian labor laws but you can at least raise the price for a higher quality product right? demand will definitely go down but darn if manage to make a sale you will make it big time

 

The problem with Privatisation is that the big and small companies will always try to gain more profit. Cutting costs and finding loopholes in a law is one of them and State Run companies, while arguably might not be the most cost effective solution is the best solution in ensuring that no companies will be monopolising the market (if the government has it than it will ensure the people at least get some security for their water, electricity etc). The bank business (through my own experience of seeing the numerous ads, hearing news reports and having a mother that works for a banking company of the opposing side) is heavily competitioned with 5-6 massive banking companies trying to serve their customer the best way they can. And the competition is looking really healthy and safe (besides some corruption allegations. Understandable since my country's classified as third world)

 

Besides. As Fox Fire has said: No system can last forever. In the near future even with strict regulation these companies that run our electricity and water they WILL (as they have done in the past. Don't need much evidence to support this one) find a way to circumvent the law and screw us all over again in the name of profit. 

 

and besides. I wouldn't put my odds in hoping that private companies won't monopolize something our governments fail to see. Big governments can work (Scandinavia is a good example) as long as they remain transparent, and the people really, really have good access to information which they have in the form of the internet.

 

For Georgia and South Africa, good for them. No system will work indefinitely in any country without some form of tweaking. But i have seen in my country over and over again that privatizing companies is a bad thing since my people has limited access of information and these companies will use them to screw them over. There will be no good customer service if the customer themselves don't know what are the values, product quality, government regulation, and inner workings of the company (something i really envy from Australia. You have the internet and it's massive info repositories to back you up) to complain about

 

besides we pay these companies with both buying them stuff and paying tax money. If they screw us over they know they're in it big time since they also ruffle the feathers of taxpayers and politicans who will be questioning why the taxpayers are pissed. 

 

 

 

do mind that i'm not familiar with Australian politics, laws, and economics. And besides it's just a debate (hopefully friendly) so don't get too personal on some guy talking on the internet who disagreed with your views

Just because it's a ******** example doesn't make it something other than what it is. Russia is a democracy by definition, and if it isn't capitalist, what is it?

an Oligarchy? sure looks like it

Edited by Ax3hunter

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The US GDP dropped 1.6 trillion, dropping from around 15 trillion to 14.50 trillion then recovers around 2011 with 15.20 trillion.

That is NO WHERE NEAR fifty percent.

No other economical system can withstand a hit that hard, and recovers.

 

 

I'm talking about '29-'33, not '08-'09.

 

No other economical system can withstand it because no other economical system is capable of crashing like that. Said systems prevent such a thing from happening through regulation.

 

On a further note, I wouldn't say that capitalism "withstood" the '29 crash, seeing that the economy didn't improve until regulation was put in place (granted, it's debated whether the New Deal improved or prolonged the Depression). The US economy really hasn't crashed since then, until '08.

Edited by chrisford

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