Paul_

Israel launches ground invasion of Gaza

67 posts in this topic

This occurred a week or so ago. Many, many stories have come out. The 

 

Such as:

 

 - Israel Bombing the Only Power Plant in the Gaza

 

 - Israel Bombs a UN area

 

 - Tunnels have been found throughout Gaza and Israel

 

 - A temporary peace treaty negotiated by both Gaza and Israel was broken by fired missiles from Gaza, 5 hours in.

 

 - Atleast 350 Palestinians dead so far.

 

Your opinions?

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If I was an Israeli living in one of the outer districts of Israel near the border, facing constant fear of rocket fire or militants sneaking in as saboteurs, I too would want to rid myself of such worries. Firing a missile(s) on a nation is an act of war. Who do you think those rockets are targeted at? Not just military installations. At civilian centers and urban areas. Israel has every right to subdue this persistent enemy and take away their ability to harm her lands. 

 

As for civilian casualties they truly are a horrid thing, though civilian casualties are hard to eliminate when you're fighting a war. As seen in almost every conflict man has ever decided to wage. Right now those that are being counter attacked (HAMAS) are trying to play plubicity game. Make the Israeli's out to be warmongering civilian killian asshats by winning the hearts of the international community. Though those that support these enemies of Israel quickly forget that it was Hamas that fired over 1500+ rockets into Israel before the initial Israeli invasion. 

 

We shouldn't let the bureaucrats and bleeding heart liberals destroy any chance Israel has of a semi-peaceful existence with it's neighbors. 

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If I was an Israeli living in one of the outer districts of Israel near the border, facing constant fear of rocket fire or militants sneaking in as saboteurs, I too would want to rid myself of such worries. Firing a missile(s) on a nation is an act of war. Who do you think those rockets are targeted at? Not just military installations. At civilian centers and urban areas. Israel has every right to subdue this persistent enemy and take away their ability to harm her lands. 

 

As for civilian casualties they truly are a horrid thing, though civilian casualties are hard to eliminate when you're fighting a war. As seen in almost every conflict man has ever decided to wage. Right now those that are being counter attacked (HAMAS) are trying to play plubicity game. Make the Israeli's out to be warmongering civilian killian asshats by winning the hearts of the international community. Though those that support these enemies of Israel quickly forget that it was Hamas that fired over 1500+ rockets into Israel before the initial Israeli invasion. 

 

We shouldn't let the bureaucrats and bleeding heart liberals destroy any chance Israel has of a semi-peaceful existence with it's neighbors. 

 

Damn freaking straight. I'll tell you right now someone launches missiles at my homes I would demand my country protect me. Sure the civilian casualties are bad, but Israel needs to eradicate HAMAS in all its forms, eliminate it so that it can never threaten the people of Israel again. HAMAS is known for using human shields, to win the media campaign. But you know what? Why don't you visit Israel as it's being attacked. See how safe you feel

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http://i.imgur.com/MPz7Z.jpg

 

is this pic relevant?

 

Yes, because it's exactly how Hamas is fighting its war. I keep seeing on the news from the more liberal sources that "Israel kills X innocent Palestinians today..." Edit: And the sources neglect to say why:

 

Maybe if Hamas stopped putting missile launchers in hospitals, schools, mosques, etc., less civilians would die. I have absolutely no idea why the Palestinian civilians are putting up with it. I'd get the heck outta there. Personally, I don't like the idea of being used as a meat shield.

Edited by SirWinkler

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I FULLY agree, with everything that is being said.

Also interesting video

 

 

the Palestinians make me sick. They are offered 3 TIMES in the last decade a creation of their own state. AND THEY DENIED IT JUST TO DRIVE THE JEWS OUT OF THEIR ANCESTRAL HOMES!!! 

 

If things keep going this way i wouldn't care if the Palestinians are turned into Native American reserve status. They get their chance and blew it into hell

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some new interesting videos i found:

 

Palestinian terrorist tunnels found by the IDF and they decided to blow it up:

 

 

do i breach any forum rules by posting that vid??? please let me know

 

and Israeli troops blowing up the tunnel networks:

 

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Yes, because it's exactly how Hamas is fighting its war. I keep seeing on the news from the more liberal sources that "Israel kills X innocent Palestinians today..." Edit: And the sources neglect to say why:

 

Maybe if Hamas stopped putting missile launchers in hospitals, schools, mosques, etc., less civilians would die. I have absolutely no idea why the Palestinian civilians are putting up with it. I'd get the heck outta there. Personally, I don't like the idea of being used as a meat shield.

 

It seems like such a Pyrrhic strategy, but I see no other explanation for why Hamas provokes Israel the way it does. People love to talk about the "cycle of violence" in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but Hamas has zero chance of defeating Israel on the battlefield or of inflicting serious damage, yet they persist, constantly, in attacking Israel, even unable to hold to a 12-hour ceasefire. What do they gain by breaking their own proposed ceasefires? More piled up civilian bodies for CNN to show however many people still watch CNN the world. Hamas has the option to not fire rockets at Israel; they gain nothing, at least according to sane traditional strategic thinking, from doing so, but they keep doing it! That should bother all the people who lament the plight of the Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank.

 

You'd think, after half a century of this, they might try nonviolent resistance.

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yea it wrong how they making isreal look like the bad guys when it really Hamas and now the Obama admiration  yelled at isreal for attacking them and yet they didn't yell at hamas for attack isreal for years

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The Middle East is always the same story; Hamas launches rockets so Israel bombs the Arabs indiscriminately and then paints them as the bad guys even though the Israelis have killed far more civilians throughout the decades. I've seen some zionists say that Hamas launch rockets to provoke the air bombings to win sympathy. As if anyone would want to lose more people than the enemy on purpose when they don't have as much land. If I had to live in Gaza-like conditions I'd be angry too, not that I'd kill civilians though.

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The Middle East is always the same story; Hamas launches rockets so Israel bombs the Arabs indiscriminately and then paints them as the bad guys even though the Israelis have killed far more civilians throughout the decades. I've seen some zionists say that Hamas launch rockets to provoke the air bombings to win sympathy. As if anyone would want to lose more people than the enemy on purpose when they don't have as much land. If I had to live in Gaza-like conditions I'd be angry too, not that I'd kill civilians though.

 

The US killed more Iraqi troops than the Iraqi troops killed Coalition forces in the gulf war. Is a few lives lost in a blatant act of aggresion a strong justification for ruining the world economy??

 

and please Sioraf. The Israelis has offered them generous terms for their own homes MULTIPLE TIMES in the last century. And they just turn them down and launch rockets at them. Keep your Zionist butthurt to yourself, they already suffered enough

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The US killed more Iraqi troops than the Iraqi troops killed Coalition forces in the gulf war. Is a few lives lost in a blatant act of aggresion a strong justification for ruining the world economy??

 

and please Sioraf. The Israelis has offered them generous terms for their own homes MULTIPLE TIMES in the last century. And they just turn them down and launch rockets at them. Keep your Zionist butthurt to yourself, they already suffered enough

 

Err. It's generally established that the Iraq War had little to do with the recession. It more falls on the federal reserve, and the Glass Stegall Act.

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Err. It's generally established that the Iraq War had little to do with the recession. It more falls on the federal reserve, and the Glass Stegall Act.

that might be the case for the US. But i'm talking about the world's oil supply here. Which the world was far more dependant on it than in 2014

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that might be the case for the US. But i'm talking about the world's oil supply here. Which the world was far more dependant on it than in 2014

Also, I wonder. If someone offered you 50 percent of your house back, or your home, would you take it with no complaints?

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Also, I wonder. If someone offered you 50 percent of your house back, or your home, would you take it with no complaints?

is this relevant or is this trolling??

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The Middle East is always the same story; Hamas launches rockets so Israel bombs the Arabs indiscriminately and then paints them as the bad guys even though the Israelis have killed far more civilians throughout the decades. I've seen some zionists say that Hamas launch rockets to provoke the air bombings to win sympathy. As if anyone would want to lose more people than the enemy on purpose when they don't have as much land. If I had to live in Gaza-like conditions I'd be angry too, not that I'd kill civilians though.

 

The only reason Israel has killed more civilians is because Hamas has such weak technology. One difference between the two sides is that Hamas tries its best to kill as many civilians as it can with unguided, interceptable missiles, hiding amongst its own civilians as it does so, and Israel does its best with advanced technology to kill militants while killing as few civilians as it can, a handful of trigger-happy ground forces notwithstanding. If Israel were, as a matter of policy, trying to kill civilians, you would see casualty figures in the hundreds of thousands instead of the low thousands.

 

The other difference is that Israeli troops who kill civilians are punished, while Hamas forces who kill civilians are applauded.

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is this relevant or is this trolling??

 

Israel offered Palestine generally a fractional part of their homeland back. Thinking that people would just, accept part of their homes back is ridiculous. Also, Palestine has several peace offerings, such as the removal of embargos, troops withdraws etc.

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the Palestinians make me sick. They are offered 3 TIMES in the last decade a creation of their own state. AND THEY DENIED IT JUST TO DRIVE THE JEWS OUT OF THEIR ANCESTRAL HOMES!!! 

 

If things keep going this way i wouldn't care if the Palestinians are turned into Native American reserve status. They get their chance and blew it into hell

 

Really? You have got to be joking.

 

What if instead of Isreal it was where you live? They took their lands and gave them to a foreign people who hadn't had a state there for thousands of years and basically said "Well if it makes you feel better you still get to keep all the other land we didn't take from you without your consent!" Palestine operated autonomously essentially under European rule, and for several decades in most of the middle east local emirs ruled as subjugated states under various European powers. It doesn't matter what Israel has offered Palestine, in the eyes of the Palestinians, they are not fighting for land, they are fighting for their homes, and the Israelis have brought nothing to the table regarding the fact their creation as a state was made entirely by foreign colonial powers that simply imposed their will on Palestine.

 

Meanwhile we are forgetting that Israel has admitted to using Palestinians as Human shields: 

Link

Another Link

 

That Israel used a method to warn Palestinians of bombings that is deemed inhumane (cause it can kill people) known as roof-knocking:

Link

Another Link (includes video)

 

We also have the incident where Israel hit a UNRWA School, saying they we're simply attacking the origin of Palestinian fire, despite the fact that the UNRWA alerted Israel of the location several times. No people on the premises reported anything of Palestinian fire nearby.

 

"In all, seven UN schools have been attacked during the conflict."

 

Link

Another

 

Then we have instances where Israel "misfires" and shoots civilian structures without warning.

Link

 

The point I am trying to make is while Hamas should be considered a terrorist group, we have Israel bombing an area equivalent to 1.5 the the size of the Baltimore City area, but nearly 2.5 times the population. That means a densely populated area. Hamas has no room for military operations more or less that there would be no population around. Meanwhile Israel has the 6th largest military, receives aid from the world's largest military, they have had 3 or so civilian deaths. Palestine has had 1,000+. To victimize Israel, who currently occupies the Golan Heights and portions of West Bank, would be to victimize a Lion fighting a Tiger. Neither party is innocent. Israel has committed many violations of UN policy and has yet to be held accountable. They occupied East Jerusalem, and proclaimed Jerusalem as their capital despite Jerusalem's status as a International city (They essentially annexed a city that belongs to the world). They also have taken lands in the West Bank, and when asked to return them, sent further money into the jewish settlement process of these lands.

 

Also the video above says Palestinians in West Bank we're given no rights in Jordan. This is false, they were given Jordanian citizenship. Egypt did however give no rights to Palestinians. I will not go on to describe the Palestinian errors in war and errors in general as most have been touched upon already. 

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Really? You have got to be joking.

 

What if instead of Isreal it was where you live? They took their lands and gave them to a foreign people who hadn't had a state there for thousands of years and basically said "Well if it makes you feel better you still get to keep all the other land we didn't take from you without your consent!" Palestine operated autonomously essentially under European rule, and for several decades in most of the middle east local emirs ruled as subjugated states under various European powers. It doesn't matter what Israel has offered Palestine, in the eyes of the Palestinians, they are not fighting for land, they are fighting for their homes, and the Israelis have brought nothing to the table regarding the fact their creation as a state was made entirely by foreign colonial powers that simply imposed their will on Palestine.

 

Meanwhile we are forgetting that Israel has admitted to using Palestinians as Human shields: 

Link

Another Link

 

That Israel used a method to warn Palestinians of bombings that is deemed inhumane (cause it can kill people) known as roof-knocking:

Link

Another Link (includes video)

 

We also have the incident where Israel hit a UNRWA School, saying they we're simply attacking the origin of Palestinian fire, despite the fact that the UNRWA alerted Israel of the location several times. No people on the premises reported anything of Palestinian fire nearby.

 

"In all, seven UN schools have been attacked during the conflict."

 

Link

Another

 

Then we have instances where Israel "misfires" and shoots civilian structures without warning.

Link

 

The point I am trying to make is while Hamas should be considered a terrorist group, we have Israel bombing an area equivalent to 1.5 the the size of the Baltimore City area, but nearly 2.5 times the population. That means a densely populated area. Hamas has no room for military operations more or less that there would be no population around. Meanwhile Israel has the 6th largest military, receives aid from the world's largest military, they have had 3 or so civilian deaths. Palestine has had 1,000+. To victimize Israel, who currently occupies the Golan Heights and portions of West Bank, would be to victimize a Lion fighting a Tiger. Neither party is innocent. Israel has committed many violations of UN policy and has yet to be held accountable. They occupied East Jerusalem, and proclaimed Jerusalem as their capital despite Jerusalem's status as a International city (They essentially annexed a city that belongs to the world). They also have taken lands in the West Bank, and when asked to return them, sent further money into the jewish settlement process of these lands.

 

Also the video above says Palestinians in West Bank we're given no rights in Jordan. This is false, they were given Jordanian citizenship. Egypt did however give no rights to Palestinians. I will not go on to describe the Palestinian errors in war and errors in general as most have been touched upon already. 

 

This is a excellent summary.

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Really? You have got to be joking.

 

What if instead of Isreal it was where you live? They took their lands and gave them to a foreign people who hadn't had a state there for thousands of years and basically said "Well if it makes you feel better you still get to keep all the other land we didn't take from you without your consent!" Palestine operated autonomously essentially under European rule, and for several decades in most of the middle east local emirs ruled as subjugated states under various European powers. It doesn't matter what Israel has offered Palestine, in the eyes of the Palestinians, they are not fighting for land, they are fighting for their homes, and the Israelis have brought nothing to the table regarding the fact their creation as a state was made entirely by foreign colonial powers that simply imposed their will on Palestine.

 

Meanwhile we are forgetting that Israel has admitted to using Palestinians as Human shields: 

Link

Another Link

 

That Israel used a method to warn Palestinians of bombings that is deemed inhumane (cause it can kill people) known as roof-knocking:

Link

Another Link (includes video)

 

We also have the incident where Israel hit a UNRWA School, saying they we're simply attacking the origin of Palestinian fire, despite the fact that the UNRWA alerted Israel of the location several times. No people on the premises reported anything of Palestinian fire nearby.

 

"In all, seven UN schools have been attacked during the conflict."

 

Link

Another

 

Then we have instances where Israel "misfires" and shoots civilian structures without warning.

Link

 

The point I am trying to make is while Hamas should be considered a terrorist group, we have Israel bombing an area equivalent to 1.5 the the size of the Baltimore City area, but nearly 2.5 times the population. That means a densely populated area. Hamas has no room for military operations more or less that there would be no population around. Meanwhile Israel has the 6th largest military, receives aid from the world's largest military, they have had 3 or so civilian deaths. Palestine has had 1,000+. To victimize Israel, who currently occupies the Golan Heights and portions of West Bank, would be to victimize a Lion fighting a Tiger. Neither party is innocent. Israel has committed many violations of UN policy and has yet to be held accountable. They occupied East Jerusalem, and proclaimed Jerusalem as their capital despite Jerusalem's status as a International city (They essentially annexed a city that belongs to the world). They also have taken lands in the West Bank, and when asked to return them, sent further money into the jewish settlement process of these lands.

 

Also the video above says Palestinians in West Bank we're given no rights in Jordan. This is false, they were given Jordanian citizenship. Egypt did however give no rights to Palestinians. I will not go on to describe the Palestinian errors in war and errors in general as most have been touched upon already. 

 

No i am not Joking. I am seriously pissed at the Palestinians for Antagonizing Israel. 

 

If i was Palestinian living in either the West Bank or the Gaza Strip, i would've chosen a party that doesn't keep firing rockets and antagonizing a power which is far stronger than you in any way possible. Oh and if you want to argue about who took who's land in the first place then blame the British. They took the region from the Ottoman Empire in the first world war. But failed miserably to establish cooperation between the Jewish and Palestinians (which you have seen in the Ahovking's video), and this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration. And so what if the local colonial powers (Ottomans, British) imposed their will in the Palestinian emirs?? it happened long ago in the past and the Palestinians are clinging to the hope that they would drive and kill all the Jews in Israel if they have the power. That itself is more than enough Justification for Israel to send troops into the Gaza Strip or the West Bank.

 

Also Paul. I live in a house that doesn't have two influential family members that utterly hate each other and wants the kitchen or the living room for themselves. Of course i would complain.

 

and while i agree that the bombing of UN schools and the rising death toll in Gaza is alarming: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/world/gaza-counter/?clsrd

 

I won't agree that Israel should do nothing and just counter Gazan Terrorist incursions via tunnels and rocket fire by using their Iron beam (or whatever it is called) and does nothing to counter their offensives. I fully support Israeli occupation of the Gaza strip (as long as it is not permanent). 

 

But i do agree that Israel and Palestine are both guilty. Israel has committed human rights violations (if that site is any indication) and the Palestinians are also guilty for electing the wrong leaders such as HAMAS to lead the country. If i was the Palestinian president right now i would engage in improving relations with Israel and reach a compromise on who has the West Bank or the Gaza Strip. The homes of the Jews and the Palestinians has been screwed up many times in the last century that it is virtually impossible for one party to gain their homes in their entirety without direct interference from a major power.

 

 

I would personally blame the British for starting this screwup back in world war 1 really.

Edited by Ax3hunter

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EDIT: I blame Israel though for starting this conflict TBH. This conflict shouldn't happen but was overhyped by Netanyahu for BS reasons

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Palestinians never elected Hamas, they took power via pushing out the PLO who has no military as Palestine is such a small and crippled state it can maintain none. Gaza was taken control of in a Coup-like environment by Hamas, and Hamas has been known to be a cruel leader of Gaza, hence why I said they should be ruled a terrorist organization.

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Palestinians never elected Hamas, they took power via pushing out the PLO who has no military as Palestine is such a small and crippled state it can maintain none. Gaza was taken control of in a Coup-like environment by Hamas, and Hamas has been known to be a cruel leader of Gaza, hence why I said they should be ruled a terrorist organization.

wut?? they did elect HAMAS in an election back in 2006: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Legislative_Council

 

whine all you want about HAMAS being a terrorist organisation, the inconvenient truth is that they practically control the Parliament of Palestine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Legislative_Council

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)

 

Now this is my bad as I had to leave when I posted the link, but now I am back, but the Battle of Gaza is a show of Violence where Hamas was trying to be uprooted from Gaza. Hamas is essentially a rogue political party that gained power in Gaza but was inefficient and kept power through force. To say that the Palestinians support Hamas, is to say the thousands that Hamas barred from re-entering Gaza (They were refugee'd in Egypt) after a Israeli-Palestinian war all really enjoyed the war. We are also ignoring that when Hamas was elected Israel was occupying Gaza even though it said it was disengaging the region.

Edited by LazarusCarnabuci

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